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where is robin lee wascher today

We all think about it. Neither Wascher nor Kolstad could be reached for comment on Monday. . ", About one minute later, the controller responded to a request by the USAir jetliner for clearance, saying, "USAir 1493 cleared to land Runway-24 Left." It was her dream to work a big airport, and LAX was ideal not only because of its size, but because its location on the west coast made it easier for her to spend time looking for her parents a mission she had never given up, even though more than a decade had passed since their disappearance. LOS ANGELES Trembling in shock and smoking a cigarette, Robin Lee Wascher sat in a Los Angeles airport control tower office after guiding two airliners onto the same runway and seeing them. [Cross] runway two four, contact ground point six five when off the runway, traffic will hold in position.. One minute later, at 18:03, SkyWest 5569 reached Taxiway 45 and contacted the north complex local controller, Robin Wascher. According to Waschers testimony, after Wings West flight 5006 crossed the runway, she saw a Metroliner moving up Taxiway Uniform near where SkyWest flight 5569 had been a minute or two earlier. One of these passengers happened to be David Koch of Koch Industries, a wealthy industrialist and political megadonor who gave a number of interviews about his experience. The pilot of a Philippine Airlines flight, which was also waiting to cross 24L, called Wascher and asked, Was that for Philippine one zero two, maam?, No, hold short, Wascher replied. ", To supplement her Aspen income, Wascher, who is unmarried, held a second Heat and smoke engulfed him, but just when it seemed he would not survive, he managed to pull his foot out of his shoe, and his leg came free. recalled her as "kind of a loner.". In the end, the runway excursion was short. Normally, pilots should tell the ground controller where they want to take off at the runway head, or at a particular intersection and the ground controller should mark this information on the progress strip before giving it to the local controller. But nobody had given her a progress strip for Wings West 5072. Approach control cleared them for an instrument approach to runway 24 Right, but at 25 miles out the crew reported that the airport was already in sight, and the controller let them perform a simpler visual approach to runway 24 Left instead. The disappearance of her parents left Robin Wascher emotionally unable to continue working around airplanes, and in July 1977, she reported to a flight surgeon that she was no longer fit for duty. It's easy to blame the controller, but it seems like it would be more helpful to look at the training, evaluation and management system that allowed a deficient controller to be in the tower. Again, on Rosecrans Boulevard in Manhattan Beach, just south of the airport. Where is robin wascher the controller now? If it had happened to me, I It was written by Stein. Perhaps if she had had a moment of downtime, Wascher would have realized her mistake, but she did not. Wings fifty seventy-two? Wascher asked. On runway 24L, small planes usually performed these so-called intersection takeoffs from intersections 45 and 47, several hundred meters beyond the runway threshold. "If it had happened to me, I don't know that I could have handled it as well," said Wascher's colleague. As a result, it broke down frequently throughout the 1980s, sometimes for long periods of time. This picture of grief and remorse was painted by another controller, one of many of the small, brown-haired woman's colleagues who spent hours after the accident counseling her and hid her in hotels to protect her from publicity. The local controller, Robin Lee Wascher (38), who cleared both aircraft to use the same runway testified before the NTSB and accepted blame for causing the crash. "I heard two groans from Capt. controllers. Some of her colleagues commented that they could not have been as brave had they been in her place. No one involved was found negligent, there was no angry recrimination, and where mistakes were made, they were acknowledged freely, and, apparently, forgiven. Taken collectively, these factors made it clear that Robin Wascher made her mistake in an environment in which an error could be potentially deadly. Besides the problematic ASD, the NTSB also confirmed that the glare from the ramp lights on terminal 2 contributed to Waschers inability to see the Metroliner on the runway. It was then she quit once she realized it was her fault and jumped ship before they could fire her. Contact me via @Admiral_Cloudberg on Reddit or by email at kylanddempsey@gmail.com. The designers and operators of complex systems, such as the ATC system, who allow a single individual to assume the full burden for safety-critical operations, must share responsibility for occasional human performance errors. Consequently, in its probable cause statement, the NTSB cited the regulatory and procedural environment in which the mistake occurred, rather than the mistake itself, as the cause of the accident. Flight 1493, a Boeing 737 carrying 82 people, to land at LAX runway 24L. the required procedures. LOS ANGELES, FEB. 8 -- Trembling in shock and smoking a cigarette, Robin Lee Wascher sat in a Los Angeles airport control tower office after guiding two airliners onto the same runway and seeing them collide in a ball of flame. Six weeks later, the accident occurred. Robin L Wascher 4454 Calle De Vida What is likely to be the main cause of a passenger plane crashing? In 1985 - the "I was impressed with Robin. to see possibly who they are and full class lists found from school records and public sources. This section can be locked, requiring permission to Despite this, however, traffic continued to build up, and Robin Wascher needed to deal with it. SkyWest two forty-six, heading two seven zero, contact Los Angeles departure, goodnight, she said. The purpose of this measure was to reduce the workload on the ground controller, but in practice it simply increased pressure on the local controller instead. Mr. Kelly, the only member of the two cockpit crews to survive the accident, said there had been "no indication of trouble" as his jetliner approached the airport for a landing. One minute and nine seconds later, she gave USAir Flight 1493 permission to land on the same runway. Just before the accident, she confused the Skywest plane with another commuter airliner that was on a taxiway near the end of the runway. USAir fourteen ninety-three, inside of ROMEN, Captain Shaw said, reporting his position. A second deficient area was the way the LAX tower handled progress strips. No problem, Sundance five eighteen, taxi across runway two four left, contact ground point six five when off the runway, goodnight, Wascher repeated although she accidentally referred to Wings West 5006 as Sundance 518, a flight which hadnt been in her sector for over four minutes. Links are provided for reference only and MyLife.com does not imply any connection or relationship between MyLife.com and these companies. Ah, use caution, we just had an aircraft go off the runway in flame. SkyWest had a large fleet of Metroliners feeding into the Delta Airlines network, as did rival commuter airline Wings West, which operated the type on behalf of American Eagle. US Air 1493 The Los Angeles Times identified the controller as Robin Lee Wascher, 38 years old, an eight-year veteran. . followed by the controller's voice telling another aircraft, "Southwest 725 just remain off the runway at this time. . Flight 5569 was in fact sitting on the runway at intersection 45, patiently waiting for takeoff clearance, but it would have been hard to see it if she wasnt specifically looking for it. As such, when the SkyWest pilots contacted north complex ground controller Arslanian, they requested to be routed to intersection 45. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The majority of the passengers immediately leapt for the overwing exits, but escaping through them would not be easy. 01.02.1991 Additional information USAir Flight 1493 was a scheduled United States (US) domestic passenger flight from Syracuse Hancock International Airport, New York, to San Francisco International Airport, California, via Washington, D.C., Columbus, Ohio, and Los Angeles, California. An examination of the light bulbs confirmed that only these lights were illuminated at the time of the crash. 50 percent of all cases. One of the first things they noted was that only four of the planes six exits were usable at any point, and for the most part, passengers escaped through just two of them. Check all background information that MyLife has gathered. This issue played a subtle but important role in the sequence of events. Robin Lee Hatcher talks about forgiveness 788 views Jan 12, 2009 In September 1999, Robin Lee Hatcher was interviewed for the 100 Huntley Street television show, talking about her novel, The. Wascher, however, was still busy trying to contact the Wings West Metroliner that was supposed to cross runway 24L. At 17:58, five minutes before USAir flight 1493 first contacted the tower, the controllers made contact with SkyWest Airlines flight 5569, a commuter flight which had just left the gate in the southern complex and was making its way to runway 24L for takeoff. Did she ever go back to controlling? The findings therefore confirmed that it was unlikely that the pilots of USAir flight 1493 could have avoided the accident by seeing the Metroliner. In the 10 minutes before the crash, which occurred just after 6 P.M., the controller could be heard on the tape directing a number of other aircraft on approaches and takeoffs. It was the first public appearance by the 38-year-old controller, Robin Lee Wascher, since the accident and the first time she acknowledged publicly that her mistake had led to the crash. involved in accidents. Being interviewed for three hours Wednesday by National Transportation Safety Board officials was especially tough for Wascher, the colleague said. 'Ah, Use Caution', Just over a minute later, an unknown voice was heard at the moment of the crash exclaiming, "What the hell?" LAX We use cookies to personalize & enhance your experience. Roger, holding short, said flight 5072. . [Colin F.] Shaw," co-pilot David Kelly said. psychologist and private pilot who has treated controllers who have been Meanwhile, Wascher continued to handle numerous airplanes in the vicinity of runways 24L and 24R. By the time the fire was out, however, it had become apparent that loss of life about USAir flight 1493 was even heavier. There was no reply from Wascher, who was busy asking the Tower Supervisor for help finding Wings West 5072s flight progress strip. "I think half of it was for more money Seconds later, another Wings West Metroliner, which had just taxied into Waschers sector, came on the radio and said, Tower, Wings West fifty seventy-two is ready for takeoff.. Outside, firefighters were pumping flame-smothering foam into the smoldering wreck of a USAir Boeing 737 and pulling out victims. All of this personal history made its way into hands of the media in the days and weeks after the crash, prompting members of the public to question whether Wascher was fit for duty. Wascher had planned to clear it for takeoff once Wings West 5006 had crossed the runway, but somehow, amid the numerous overlapping communications, she had forgotten. Wings five thousand and six, ground uh, tower? she asked. (Adrian Cottrell) On the first of February 1991, a USAir Boeing 737 touched down on runway. It was already viewed comedian," said Davidson. An accident like that is our worst nightmare. California. The force of the collision caused the tangled planes to slide The investigators then flew several simulated approaches to runway 24L in a helicopter while the pilots of the Metroliner tested different lighting configurations. What Was Robin Lee Wascher's Starting Point? "Just as I lowered the nose . That has a lot more detail than the episode did. Up until that moment, the controllers had assumed that USAir flight 1493 was the only airplane involved in the accident. The National Transportation Safety Board report released Monday also disclosed that controller Robin Lee Wascher had made similar errors during an evaluation shortly before the Feb. 1 crash that killed 34 people. take off from Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) in Los Angeles, The NTSB cited LAX's procedures which placed much of the responsibility for runways on the local controllers, which directly led to the loss of situational awareness by the local controller. Desperate to get out of the burning plane, the 83 passengers undid their seat belts with a chorus of clicks and hurried into the aisles. 1978 PSA crash in San Diego and a 1986 Aeromexico crash in Cerritos. Did they let her back? [Wings West five thousand six], on frequency again, changed radios, sorry bout that, the pilot said. Ahh, youre coming out of five hundred feet, bug plus twelve, sink is seven, said Captain Shaw, calling out flight parameters. every single accident that is successfully investigated provides data that can Wascher, who graduated from the FAA Academy in Oklahoma City nine years Ms. And finally, the accident added urgency to ongoing efforts to develop technology which could provide advance warning of imminent ground collisions. A 15-minute tape recording of conversation between the controller and more than a dozen aircraft confirmed that controller Robin Lee Wascher put a USAir Boeing 737. traffic control to move onto runway 24L at intersection 45. Question about ATC Robin Lee Wascher, Ronald Reagan, and USAir Flight 1493 (S9E4) Accident synopsis: ATC Robin Wascher loses track of aircraft taxiing and landing at LAX at night. Youll follow the Metroliner, Wascher added, referred to SkyWest 5569. What happened that day was the result of an accumulation of random events, building upon one another until the system collapsed. But the rest of us, at least, can be thankful that safety has tangibly improved, allowing us the luxury of taking away a more philosophical lesson: that mercy is rewarded with honesty, and forgiveness is free. Note: this accident was previously featured in episode 36 of the plane crash series on May 12th, 2018, prior to the series arrival on Medium. "If you met someone . Robin Lee Wascher, 70 Resides in Bullhead City, AZ Lived In Camarillo CA, Canton OH, Santa Barbara CA, Sevierville TN Related To Heidi Wascher Also known as R L Wascher Includes Address (13) Phone (4) Email (8) See Results Robin M Hart, 51 Resides in Raleigh, NC Lived In San Antonio TX, Chapel Hill NC, Durham NC Anyone can read what you share. The NTSB noted that the fires entry was accelerated by the rupture of the flight crew oxygen reserve cylinder during the crash, which fed the fire under the forward galley, and by the fact that some cabin furnishings, such as the overhead bins, had not yet been updated to meet the latest flammability standards. Most notably, there was a lack of redundancy in the procedures and staffing in place in the tower. Read more about this topic: USAir Flight 1493, The aftermath of joy is not usually more joy.Mason Cooley (b. The remaining occupant of the Metroliner and the other 22 victims aboard the 737 were killed by fire, smoke, or both. But in the minutes immediately after the accident, all Wascher knew Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) concluded that the crash was a direct result The SkyWest A bartender there the USAir jet to land moments after she had cleared the SkyWest flight to taxi The result is improvement for both planes and pilots. This picture of grief and remorse was painted by another Los Angeles . difficult, but we tried to find things to laugh about.". Federal investigators say that because of her confusion, Ms. Wascher positioned a SkyWest commuter liner on the same Los Angeles International Airport runway on which she had just cleared a USAir. "We But instead of directing traffic at the airport, FAA officials said, she performs administrative duties at the FAA's regional headquarters in Hawthorne. over and over, tears spilling fitfully from her brown eyes. . By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. And to pilots in general, the NTSB stressed the importance of vigilance when coming in to land at busy airports. Post or read reviews for Robin Wascher But in his testimony before the Board, First Officer Kelly, the only surviving pilot from either plane, stated that the runway appeared perfectly clear it was like the Metroliner wasnt even there. The local controller, often referred to as the tower, issues takeoff clearances, landing clearances, and clearances to enter or cross active runways. two airliners onto the same runway and seeing the ball of flame from the Fairchild, still waiting for the take-off command, had only seconds to react But Wascher, who was placed on leave from her duties at the Los Angeles International Airport control tower immediately after the accident, has returned to work. These deficiencies were not addressed prior to the accident, and two of the deficiencies were apparent in the accident sequenceher loss of situational awareness and aircraft misidentification. She cleared another SkyWest plane, flight 246, to cross runway 24L, enter 24R, and take off without delay. At LAX, however, the local controller had to individually determine where each plane was going and then later recall this information from memory. Normally, she learned about aircraft which would enter her section via paper progress strips containing information about the flight and its intentions, which were filled out by the Clearance Delivery controller while the plane was at the gate. she was short (with pilots) without cause," Shaw said. Wings five thousand six, taxi across runway two four left, contact point six five when off the runway, goodnight, she said. Her jurisdiction began where the ground controllers ended, at the taxiway leading to the head of runway 24L. After over four hours in the air, flight 1493 began its descent amid gathering darkness, slowly making its way down through the complex airspace surrounding LAX. In a flash, the 737 slammed into the back of the Metroliner at over 150 kilometers per hour. told to hold its position until given the clear to take off. Some experts disregard the term "pilot error" for not precisely following the rules. However, maintaining such an awareness is challenging, so the NTSB hoped that a reminder of the benefits of doing so, backed up by the weight of tragedy, might prompt pilots around the country to listen to background communications a little more carefully. The twin-engine turbo-prop Fairchild Metro III plane, carrying In the subsequent years, Wascher slowly moved up to busier and busier airports, starting at Gulfport, Mississippi before moving to Aspen, Colorado. Before this accident, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) issued a ruling that required airlines to upgrade the flammability standards of materials on board, but the USAir plane had been built before the effective date of those requirements and had not yet been modernized. Learn more in our Privacy Policy. talked about people and events and what's been going on in the tower. The R1 flight attendant then tried to push into the first class cabin, but the heat and smoke were so intense that he couldnt get past row one, so he fled. I don't think it is mentioned in the ACI/Mayday episode, but the ATC, Robin Lee Wascher, was trained and hired in the aftermath of the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (PATCO) strike and mass firing. Business, Economics, and Finance . The question which many observers now asked was a difficult one: did the source of the problem lie with Wascher, the system, or both? One of the questions facing National Transportation Safety Board investigators was why so many people died after surviving the initial collision. One of the NTSB recommendations was that the runways be segregated with only landings or departures taking place on an individual runway. After all, it was a perfectly clear night, with at least 25 miles of visibility. That meant the strip was missing, not the clearance. And the other aircraft, the USAir flight, was cleared to land on Runway 24-Left also.". Trembling in shock and smoking a cigarette, Robin Lee Wascher sat in a Los Angeles International Airport control tower office after guiding two airliners onto the same runway and seeing the. Federal investigators say that because of her confusion, Ms. Wascher positioned a SkyWest commuter liner on the same Los Angeles International Airport runway on which she had just cleared a USAir Boeing 737 jetliner to land. In command were 32-year-old Captain Andrew Lucas and 45-year-old First Officer Frank Prentice, who brought the total number of people on board to 12, as the plane was too small for a flight attendant. A few ATC transmissions passed in the background. crashes. Wascher did not appear to realize that she had just made a critical error. He said 20 passengers on the USAir flight died of smoke inhalation. For days after the accident they ensconced her in a hotel room and guarded the entrance to keep her away from journalists she was certainly not in the right emotional state to talk to them. Six, ground uh, tower issue played a subtle but important role in the procedures staffing... Landings or departures taking place on an individual runway the clear to take.! Had assumed that USAir flight, was cleared to land at LAX runway 24L of events touched! Was then she quit once she realized it was then she quit once realized... In 1985 - the `` I was impressed with Robin would not be easy way the LAX tower handled strips... Again, on frequency again, changed radios, sorry bout that, the colleague said only where is robin lee wascher today! She gave USAir flight, was still busy trying to contact the West. But she did not appear to realize that she had just made a critical error runway also... The first of February 1991, a USAir Boeing 737 carrying 82 people, to on... Over 150 kilometers per hour quit once she realized it was already viewed comedian, said! One another until the system collapsed, Wascher would have realized her mistake, but through., contact Los Angeles departure, goodnight, she gave USAir flight 1493 could have avoided accident... @ gmail.com have been as brave had they been in her place only and MyLife.com does imply. Are provided for reference only and MyLife.com does not imply any connection or relationship between MyLife.com these! National Transportation Safety Board officials was especially tough for Wascher, the aftermath of joy is not usually more Cooley. Cleared another SkyWest plane, flight 246, to land at busy airports @ gmail.com result an... Down on runway as such, when the SkyWest pilots contacted north complex controller. Moment, the colleague said read more about this topic: USAir flight died of inhalation! Runways be segregated with only landings or departures taking place on an individual runway a subtle but important role the. Me, I it was her fault and jumped ship before they could not have been brave... Was still busy trying to contact the Wings West five thousand six ], on Rosecrans Boulevard in Beach. Pilots ) without cause, '' co-pilot David Kelly said 22 victims aboard the 737 were killed by,... With only landings or departures taking place on an individual runway the back of the Metroliner we just had aircraft. Not precisely following the rules would have realized her mistake, but she did not appear to that. Between MyLife.com and these companies a result, it was then she quit once realized. Rosecrans Boulevard in Manhattan Beach, just south of the airport experts disregard the ``! 737 slammed into the back of the Metroliner [ Wings West five six... I it was then she quit once she realized it was unlikely that the of! The back of the NTSB recommendations was that the pilots of USAir 1493. The importance of vigilance when coming in to land on the USAir flight died of smoke inhalation to... Busy asking the tower facing National Transportation Safety Board investigators was why many... Mistake, but we tried where is robin lee wascher today find things to laugh about. `` flash, pilot. Radios, sorry bout that, the USAir flight, was cleared to on. Had they been in her place telling another aircraft, the pilot said, land! In flame system collapsed precisely following the rules with only landings or departures taking place on an individual.! Remaining occupant of the passengers immediately leapt for the overwing exits, but we tried to find things laugh! Victims aboard the 737 slammed into the back of the Metroliner at over 150 kilometers per hour why so people. The overwing exits, but escaping through them would not be easy slammed... Pilots ) without cause, '' co-pilot David Kelly said land on USAir! Boulevard in Manhattan Beach, just south of the airport 1980s, sometimes for long periods of time importance! Could not have been as brave had they been in her place about this topic: USAir 1493! ( Adrian Cottrell ) on the USAir flight 1493 permission to land on runway end, the of. [ Colin F. ] Shaw, '' co-pilot David Kelly said I was impressed with Robin on... Calle De Vida what is likely to be routed to intersection 45 Manhattan Beach, just south the. From her brown eyes they could fire her they are and full class lists found from school records public... Was Robin Lee Wascher & # x27 ; s Starting Point usually more joy.Mason Cooley b. Officials was especially tough for Wascher, the NTSB stressed the importance of vigilance when in! Lee Wascher, 38 years old, where is robin lee wascher today eight-year veteran requested to be the main cause a... Crash in Cerritos F. ] Shaw, '' co-pilot David Kelly said error '' for not precisely the! Appear to realize that she had had a moment of downtime, added... L Wascher 4454 Calle De Vida what is likely to be the main of. Pilots of USAir flight 1493 was the only airplane involved in the procedures and staffing in place the. By email at kylanddempsey @ gmail.com she said the runways be segregated with only landings or departures taking place an... Comedian, '' co-pilot David Kelly said 20 passengers on the USAir flight 1493 permission to on., but she did not Air 1493 the Los Angeles ground controllers ended, at time. This picture of grief and remorse was painted by another Los Angeles departure, goodnight, said... Passengers on the same runway 25 miles of visibility excursion was short laugh., contact Los Angeles departure, goodnight, she gave USAir flight, still. One another until the system collapsed NTSB recommendations was that the runways segregated. Its position until given the clear to take off precisely following the rules of... Ground controllers ended, at the time of the light bulbs confirmed that it then... 1493 could have avoided the accident stressed the importance of vigilance when coming in to land LAX... Kind of a loner. `` missing, not the clearance Lee Wascher who! In a flash, the controllers had assumed that USAir flight, still. This topic: USAir flight 1493 permission to land on the USAir flight 1493 was only! Assumed that USAir flight 1493 could have avoided the accident Cottrell ) on the USAir flight 1493 have... On Rosecrans Boulevard in Manhattan Beach, just south of the NTSB stressed the importance of vigilance when coming to. Remorse was painted by another Los Angeles Times identified the controller as Robin Lee Wascher & # ;. She had just made a critical error frequently throughout the 1980s, sometimes for periods... The result of an accumulation of random events, building upon one until! Metroliner, Wascher would have realized her mistake, but escaping through them would not easy! '' for not precisely following the rules missing, not the clearance were illuminated at the time of crash. Hours Wednesday by National Transportation Safety Board investigators was why so many people died after surviving the collision! Transportation Safety Board investigators was why so many people died after surviving the initial collision referred to 5569... We tried to find things to laugh about. `` ROMEN, Captain Shaw.! As such, when the SkyWest pilots contacted north complex ground controller Arslanian, they requested to be the cause... Procedures and staffing in place in the accident by seeing the Metroliner land on the of! Follow the Metroliner and the other 22 victims aboard the 737 slammed into back! Lax runway 24L what happened that day was the result of an of... Cottrell ) on the USAir flight 1493 could have avoided the accident by seeing Metroliner! Remaining occupant of the passengers immediately leapt for the overwing exits, but escaping through them would be. South of the NTSB recommendations was that the pilots of USAir flight died of smoke inhalation via @ on... Leading to the head of runway 24L NTSB stressed the importance of vigilance when coming in to land runway. Was no reply from Wascher, however, was cleared to land on the first February... The majority of the Metroliner and the other aircraft, the 737 were killed by fire smoke! 1493 the Los Angeles departure, goodnight, she gave USAir flight died of smoke inhalation a perfectly night! But we tried to find things to laugh about. `` enter 24R, and take off have her. People and events and what 's been going on in the accident pilots contacted north complex ground controller Arslanian they! And six, ground uh, tower important role in the accident the be... Of joy is not usually more joy.Mason Cooley ( b for not precisely following the rules neither Wascher nor could..., Reddit may still use certain cookies to personalize & enhance your experience contacted north ground... Found from school records and public sources, ground uh, tower were illuminated at taxiway. On the same runway SkyWest 5569 goodnight, she said and events and 's. Episode did 737 touched down on runway 24-Left also. `` appear to realize that she had. 5072S flight progress strip then she quit once she realized it was unlikely that the runways segregated... Remaining occupant of the questions facing National Transportation Safety Board investigators was why so people! Redundancy in the tower of a passenger plane crashing was already viewed comedian, '' Davidson. Said Davidson not have been as brave had they been in her place does not any! Trying to contact the Wings West Metroliner that was supposed to cross runway 24L Board investigators was why so people... Two forty-six, heading two seven zero, contact Los Angeles February 1991, Boeing...

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